WS1433: Passive Investing Mistakes to Avoid | Matt Hansen

EPISODE 1433

[INTRODUCTION]

Matt Hansen (MH): That’s really my focus right now is to help other people avoid the pitfalls that I did, of putting everything in a 401k and at the mercy of the stock market.

Whitney Sewell (WS): This is your daily real estate syndication show. I’m your host, Whitney Sewell. Before you invest passively, there are many things that you need to know you definitely need to educate yourself. Our guest today, didn’t know about syndication for years and years and years, in the corporate executive position, all his money was on Wall Street, and then he was exposed to syndication. And he dives in headfirst. He’s helping lots of people to learn, obviously, how to invest passively and things you need to know. 

His name is Matt Hansen. He’s a retired corporate executive who transitioned to a full-time real estate investor. He is currently the managing partner of Hansen Holdings. His investment portfolio includes over 2,000 units of multifamily apartments located in Texas, Tennessee, and Florida. He’s gonna go through many things as a passive investor that you need to know so you do not lose money. One crucial mistake that he made early on that resulted in a capital call, you need to know what it is. And you’re going to learn that today. 

[INTERVIEW]

WS: Matt, welcome to the show. I know you have transitioned full-time to real estate investing, and you’re now you’re investing passively in many projects as well. I’m just looking forward to learning from you and helping the listeners to learn from you how you’ve done that. you know, passive to active investing in real estate, what that looks like. And let’s just jump right in. I mean, Matt, tell us a little bit about your business and what real estate you’ve invested in, and maybe even why? Why real estate right? Instead of just the normal path, right? For most people investing in Wall Street, or whatever it may be, let’s dive in.

Matt Hansen (MH): Well, thanks for being here. It’s a pleasure to be on your show. I’m a huge fan of yourself. So basically, I’ve a real estate investment firm called Hansen Holdings. And we focus right now on multifamily, large multifamily deals — helping people move their money from Wall Street to Main Street by passively investing in real estate. And as a retired executive, I was one of those people some years ago, they had 100% of their retirement funds in the stock market. And that’s something I’m really passionate about just educating people, you have need to have some of your money outside of the stock market. That’s a little bit foolish. And I was foolish to have 100% of it in there up until probably six or seven years ago, when I discovered multifamily and syndications and things like that. So that’s really my focus right now is to help other people avoid the pitfalls that I did, of putting everything in a 401k and at the mercy of the stock market.

WS: Did you retire from the corporate position and then learn about syndication and commercial real estate and investing passively? Or was it like before that and that helped you to retire? Or what did that look like the timing there?

MH: It was like four years before I retired. So I was moonlighting that confidentially, nobody knew I was doing it. So I couldn’t advertise it. But I would run deals from LOI to close with my business partner. So I was the guy behind the scenes doing all the work, the due diligence, and all those things, because I really couldn’t conflict of interest, couldn’t publicize what I was doing, because I was an executive at a fortune 100 company. And they frown upon that a bit. 

So I was fortunate to spend four years doing that, building it up. And then about two years ago is when I retired, and I could start so many contributed to it. Frankly, I’m still not making as much as I did, as an executive, understand that. But I have full control over my time and the freedom now. And it’s a blast to help other people get into real estate passively. So that was kind of my journey in two seconds.

WS: Yeah, this big ticketing started passively, you know, you learned about that. You know, four years before you retired. So speak to learning the passive side of investing in a syndication, maybe some tips that you have for the listener who’s who’s wanting to be passive, or maybe already is, but what did you do to learn the business? So you thought, okay, you know, I’ve been taught Wall Street my whole life, you’re right, most of this work had been. And then all of a sudden, there’s this thing we call syndication, right? That almost sounds scary. But how did you develop a comfort level and education around syndication to be able to do that?

MH: Education, education, education, that’s why what you do is so great, is that I joined a mastermind that was in a passively invested that mastermind for probably the first two years and tons and tons of deals. And you learn so much before you go and be a general partner or run a deal. You really need to be a passive investor, a limited partner, and learn what it’s like from there. And so I’ve learned a lot of things that I should and shouldn’t be doing with all the investments that I did, like, who’s communicating really well, who’s not communicating really well? Who is honest about what’s going on with the property versus hiding it you find out later? And it’s fine for them to get an answer before you share it with me. But if you just don’t tell me about it, and I find out much, much later, that’s not really great. 

I mean, we’re the limited partners, are the ones that make those deals happen. But wasn’t for them, you couldn’t buy the property. So I have a high value for the limited partners and that’s the way I make sure I treat anybody that invested with us is I’ve been on that side. Tons and tons of times. I know exactly what they’re looking for. So education was the number one thing and then vetting the sponsors and that’s something that early on I made one big mistake on that that, you know, had I been more seasoned and did a more thorough vetting, I would have probably avoided that, you know,

WS: You’ve piqued our interest, right? You made a mistake vetting a sponsor. I have to ask, right? Or if you’re willing to share your knowledge, obviously, like names or you know, maybe share what you wish you’d known right back then?

MH: Right. So I’d invested in a deal actually was my second limited partner passive investment. And I had knew the operator a little bit known for six months and great credentials. And he was the guy was really investing, he was the key sponsor for the lead sponsor. And then he had two other people that were newer to multifamily, that were like they’re well educated and all that, but they’re fairly new to it. 

Well, the guy I invested with about six months after the deal closed, decide, oh, you know, I’m not going to do multifamily, I’m going to do triple net leases and other things in real estate. So we stepped away from the deal, leaving these other two individuals to run it. And they didn’t really know what they were doing. Within six months, we had a capital call because they weren’t on top of the property manager, things went sideways at the property, this was a 200-plus unit property in Texas in a great location, there’s no reason for this other than poor management. 

That was my fault for investing in vetting only one of the sponsors, you need to look at all the other sponsors, and most importantly, who is the asset manager, my guy was the asset manager, and he stepped away. The other partners, which really weren’t qualified to be asset managers assumed that role. So the lesson there was no all the lead sponsors or general partners who’s gonna run that asset after it’s closed. That is the most important thing because you’re married to them for the next five to six years. So that was my big takeaways. 

WS: Yeah, that’s a great point. It sounds like though, if he changed courses like you, there’s probably no way for you to have known that six months earlier. 

MH: Oh, no, there wasn’t. It was he pivoted but what I should have done is really said, “Okay, what if something happens to my buddy, that’s the lead? These other two are they going to really,” and  actually, a third person actually came in and stepped in, there was a capital call, I refused to put more money into the deal, so that you can dilute my shares, but I’m not going to put more money into this. And we did end up selling it, I made a decent profit, but not as much as it should have been had it performed well, over the whole period. But it really wasn’t preventable. But it wasn’t my end, if I would have really, really and so that’s the one tip is check out all the members of the team in case the person you invested with, goes away.

WS: Yeah, and things happen, right? I mean, where people pass away, unfortunately, or have an accident or whatever, go through a divorce or just something horrible that takes them out of the business. So I think it’s a great question. Who’s second in command here? Right? What is that person? 

MH: Yes. 

WS: So let’s move to like, what are some some say critical stats or things that that you want to review before investing? We talked about, okay, we’re gonna vet that operator, obviously, most of us know about things that we want to know this operator, want to know they have the skill set, maybe track record, all those things? And who else is in-charge, right? If something happens to them? What’s some other critical stats things that do you want to for sure see, before you invest?

MH: And I think it’s goes back to the old traditional phrase, in real estate  — location, location location. It doesn’t only apply to single-family homes but to commercial real estate as well, even more important. So the number one is, we only invest in Florida and Texas in Arizona, I’m looking at deals in Arizona now. Its locations, states that are landlord friendly cities that are growth, and that population growth and employment growth, you can have a population growth, but if there aren’t employers there to support that. So those are the two biggest things. 

And the markets that we play in, of course, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Jacksonville, Florida, and other locations in Florida. Those are the hottest markets and the trend is not going to stop. It’s not just we’re not buying out in, I live in Michigan, love the state probably won’t own large multifamily here. Maybe in the future I’d like to own something in Flint is to help out or Detroit maybe. But in terms of profitability for that’s more impact housing stuff. So our sidebar on that that’s a great thing to do. And eventually we will. 

But if you’re passively investing, and you’re just getting started, go in the markets that that are really strong for employment and population growth, because the demand is there. That’s what apartments drive on. If you’ve got those two things, you’re pretty much set, then all the others there are 42 line items we looked at in our due diligence when we’re buying a property. You know, we have market data saying okay, what is this neighborhood look within a mile and two-mile, three-mile stuff? You’re already familiar with Whitney, but some of the listeners aren’t, is that you have these it’s called costars, one of the big reports that just have industry data. So you can see what are the competition? Which are competition, what are their rents like? What are their occupancy rates like? What’s the cost per their units and their amenities? Are your amenities equal to theirs? Those are the types of things and usually, if you’re gonna invest with somebody that’s really good, you’re gonna get that in their offering package. But, you want to make sure you read through everything and do your due diligence on top of the syndicators.

WS: Yeah, hopefully, you do get those things right. You know, you mentioned population, job growth, no doubt. Some of the most important things that location, right all that’s kind of gather there, is there a way that you verify that or maybe a certain percentage you want to see in those things are? How do you see that?

MH: Yeah, it’s tough. You can all Google everything. And you can say, what’s the historical population growth for Jacksonville, Florida? And if that percent is, you know, three or 4% in Michigan, unfortunately, a negative number, but in Florida, a whole state is a positive number. But specifically, Jacksonville is growing really fast and strong right now. And its prediction is it’s going to continue, it’s just not a bubble. It’s not a one-horse town, we’re okay. There’s one big employer and that’s another thing we employ. I’ve had people bring me deals in a small town in Texas, I love Texas. But if there’s one employer there that the majority that people work for, if that employer goes out, your apartments gonna go vacant, or occupancy is gonna drop dramatically. 

So we only look at cities that are 100 to 200,000 people or greater to avoid that whole issue of potential employment or industries. You know, is there just one industry in that town? Those are things you want to avoid? So that’s the key thing. It’s all Google-able. It’s all Google-able. Just do your due diligence.

WS: That’s a new term.

MH: I just coined it. 

WS: You know, Michigan’s just too cold for me.

MH: For me, too. We leave in the summer, or in the winter, it’s beautiful in the summer, but in the winter, yeah, we usually leave.

WS: So Matt, did you start just with some cash that you had on hand investing? Did you use retirement funds of some kind? What did that look like? And let’s help the listener to think through that as well.

MH: Great question. So initially, I use some retirement funds, you can take things out from a past employer, your retirement funds in a 401 k or IRA. You roll it over to self-directed IRA, and you kind of have checkbook control. There’s lots of different vendors out there that do this, they specialize in this. What it does, it allows you to passively invest, you can invest in your own deals or buy your own properties, it’s got to be what’s called the arm’s length away, you can invest with a family member or something like that up your lineage, it’s got to be able to take that money and invest in syndication, which is another LLC, as long as you’re not involved in that LLC. And you can passively invest in other things as well, not just real estate, crypto, you can go precious metals, and all those things. And I’ve done a lot of those things as well. 

But multifamily, by far the most profitable in my favorite. So if you’ve got money sitting in an IRA, consider rolling it over into something that you have control over and get it out of the stock market, at least some of it, you don’t have to take all of it, I’ve got about 20% of my holdings still in the stock market. You know, I’m not happy about it, but they’re there. They’re locked up in some things. 

But I think that’s something that a lot of people just don’t know about, is that you can take your past employers retirement funds, or if you’ve retired, and roll those and have access to them and invest in other things outside of Wall Street.

WS: Where would you start to take the next step to make that happen? You know, we hear that often. I hear but you know, some people are just scared to, like, do something else with it, right? Are so scared of making that decision, but who should they contact? Or maybe who would be somebody they would look up to make that start to happen?

MH: Right. And we’ve got to rethink your retirement guide on our website that walks you through it. And I’ve got two companies that I work with rocket dollars, one of them and safeguards another one that I’ve got affiliates, you know, archive, check them out, my friends use them a lot, I use another one because I set mine up five or six years ago before I knew about them. But I vetted these these two companies really well. And my affiliate fee goes to my investors, I don’t get kickback on that it goes directly to their discount to their their membership of the self-directed IRA company. 

So but you can just Google it, make sure you look for the ratings and reviews and then educate, consume all their materials, rocket dollars, got a great website, and ebook that’s like 43 pages that tells you everything you need to know about it. So again, education, it’s out there.

I’ve got one of my investors right now that’s setting one up. So I’m helping them walk the whip through the process and everything like that, because I’ve done a couple of these over the years. So just get out there. Don’t be afraid to get out there, educate yourself and you won’t be afraid. That’s the key. So there’s a couple of great resources out there a lot of big companies, but with a big company has got a great reputation. And they’ll they’ll walk you through the process as well.

WS: Knowledge is power. Right? You know, I tell them our team to like if investors have questions, you know, if we don’t answer them, guess what their answer is going to be no. Answer their questions. We’re here to ensure we do that. Great example there. 

So you can use retirement funds, you can invest in real estate, many other things and it blows my mind. How many people still don’t know that. Right? That is an option. But what about you know, after you’ve started investing, you know, you came from, let’s say Wall Street, you learned about syndication and you started dabbling into that. Now you’ve invested many times across, you know many different syndications as an LP. Well, is that your one and only path now? Are you diversifying into anything else? Or maybe different asset classes? Or is it like I’ve got my my blinders on, I’m just looking at multifamily and those markets.

MH: the majority of my holdings are in multifamily. But I got a list of other things that we’ve been invested with some of it with my retirements and some with cash like land entitlement in Texas, across from the Tesla plant. I got a friend, she’s probably been on your show that I invested with her on that, that we bought some raw land 140 acres, it’s going to be explosive once the Tesla plants in their. Oil, now this is royalties for mineral rights for gold mining in Nevada, and then got some crypto I’m invested in two startup companies that are ones road construction, and how to turn any local soil into pavement by mixing it with this powder in in water. And it’s it’s revolutionary. It’s been approved by the DOT in a couple of states. And eventually, it’ll be a global business worth billions of dollars. 

So yeah, I have the opportunity to take my retirement funds and put into some fun things like that. Some of our really speculative, others less speculative,. The multifamily, by far the most conservative, and that’s where the majority of my holdings. But you gotta be, you know, once you get into and you’re comfortable, okay, I’m putting in hundreds of thousands into, you know, these apartments, you get the comfort level that okay, I can do this, I understand it, those have turned out really well. We have, gosh, probably 20 extra money. I think in some of these investments over the last six years, in terms of what I put into what I’ve gotten out of it, you just stuff you can’t do on Wall Street.

WS: Give us some key lessons you’ve learned, you know, over the years, in many projects, investing passively. You already shared one, which I thought was crucial or just really good as far as knowing, knowing who’s second in command, right? Who’s next? It winds up that happens to this operator, but what else is knowing yourself? 

Again, it’s a comfort level. Now we do some risky stuff. We’re fairly big into crypto, but I know that it could go to zero, you take that? So I think really it is starting with one thing like you indicated, focus on that one thing, it really comfortable with that one investment, and then expand from there. I think that’s really what it comes down to his comfort level and knowledge level that okay, yeah, this is okay, I can do this. And go ahead and see the results. I’ve got people that will invest with me after the first time they talk and others, it’ll be a year or two years later. And I’m like, you know, I’ve been consuming your content. Now I’m comfortable. 

So do it at your pace. Don’t feel forced or pressured. Set your goals. Know yourself, what’s your tolerance is because the last thing you want to do is invest in something and then read it later and say, I needed that money for my kid’s college funds or whatever. You need to know what you’re you know yourself and what your goals are. And because when you’re investing in multifamily, your money’s usually tied up for five or six years now, the last few years, we’ve been turning our properties in two to three years. But I think that’s going to get stretched out as the economy changes. A lot of us really know thyself. That’s what it comes down to.

WS: That risk tolerance, right? And I love how you brought that up. Because depending on how old you are, or where you’re at in your life, things going on, it’s different for lots of different people, right? Or how much capital potentially you may have to invest that way. When were you comfortable saving investing in something like a startup, you know, was it like after you’ve invested in numerous syndications, and maybe you have some cash flow? It’s like, okay, now I can do this or, or was it like, were you comfortable? Are you learned enough about these startups that it was like, pretty quickly? Hey, no, I like this. I’m gonna put quite a bit of cash in that.

MH: It was years. I think the first thing I did outside of multifamily, probably two years, maybe more I didn’t passively invested in and multifamily for at least two years before I felt, hey, you know what, I’m comfortable with this stuff. I’ve got enough, you know, money in the bank, so to speak that “Okay. I can take some risk with that.” And then once you get it’s addictive, it really fun looking for opportunities. 

And I’ve got people I’ve met along the way that were in multifamily that moved on to do one of the individuals I do a lot of investing with venture capital investing with is somebody who started with multifamily six years ago, right, but it’s, you know, a great friend of mine that I know, like can trust. I know this guy. I know. He’s betting it, I know that I can check his work and it’s good. 

So it took me a couple years, it really does, but again, multifamily, much simpler than the stuff with the high risk, the super high returns. Some of those startups, I’m speculating they’re getting traction is that you know, I paid 20,000 a share. There. Now it’s not on beta, a Wall Street company comes in valuate. And they say they’re worth plus 6000 shares. The speculations there’ll be six digits in the next few years as the company expands and expands. 

So that stuffs you just, and you need to know somebody to get into a deal like that. That was an invitation only from somebody I personally knew. And there’s only a handful of people that have access to and that’s what’s great about getting into a group like you we’re in the same tribe and have syndications and all of a sudden you find exposure to all these other things. And I will eventually be expanding those offerings to my investors but for now, focusing on multifamily, really centering on that.

WS: Love that how you brought that up too. I’ve recently invested in a couple of startups. Well, one of those we actually did put out to our investor-based too. It was very interesting to see, hey, who’s ready for this? Because we didn’t know what to expect from that. But it was successful. I was very surprised.  And, the startups been successful so far too.

MH: It’s your track record Whitney.That’s it. People know, like, and trust you. I do, certainly. And this is the first time we’ve talked, but I’ve been listening to your podcast forever. And I know you’re a stand up guy, and I know LifeBridge and all the great things you’re doing there. So that’s what it takes is credibility is and you’ve got that so I can see why you’d be very successful and expanding outside.

WS: I appreciate your your kind words, Matt, what would you have done differently? Other than have bought multifamily earlier? Or maybe more of it? Anything that you would have done differently if you could talk to yourself six years ago, or whenever that was when you started learning about syndication?

MH: I probably would have started general pardoning sooner. I think I was maybe three years in before I really started doing deals. I just passively invested because I just,and I was part of it. I’m still working. But I could have and I did do start that did start that but again, I guess it is back to I would have started earlier doing that. But I was you know, I was real hesitant. I really wanting to learn everything. I overanalyze, like a lot of people in this business. That’s what we are. We’re we’re over-thinkers. 

And I guess my answers, I just would start earlier. I think everything I’ve done, other than the one deal that had a capital call, I feel pretty good about all my investments have been very solid. I guess vetting business partners, that’s a challenge really, really. I mean, passively investing is one thing, but when your partner was somebody really vet them well, too. But other than that I did early on, made some poor decisions and partner with some people that you know, phased out. But that’s the only real big lesson, I think or anything think of just start that earlier.

WS: Yeah. What about predictions that you may have over the next six to 12 months? You’re you’re looking to invest passively in more deals? Or are you going to invest in more deals over the next 612 months? More than ever? Are you you know, are you holding back more? Or are you waiting on anything to happen in the market? Are you feel like it’s just going to keep going like it’s been going on? How do you feel about it?

MH: Cautiously optimistic, I would say. I just personally invested in one of my friends deals in Texas. So a couple months ago, oh invested in a vineyard and one of my other friends in Texas. That’s fascinating. So I don’t know, I’m probably not putting more money into multifamily, because I’m over. I’m way too big a percent, probably right now in multifamily. But that’s my speciality. I understand and know that really well. But I do want I’m really focused on my personal investing outside of this, because I’ve got so much holdings in multifamily. 

But I think the markets still going to continue to go up. I wouldn’t be investing in two states that don’t have the huge population growth in the employment growth. Because when the recession hits, those states are going to have problems, because you don’t have you have employers that are now you know, maybe ratcheting down or issues like that. But you don’t have the influx of people to replace those tenants. And you do in the states like Florida and Texas and Arizona, there’s always population moving for whatever reason. 

So I think be really cautious where you’re investing. I’ve, I have people that don’t invest with me, but ask for my opinion, and they’ll bring me a deal and it’s in a town of 20,000 people with one employer, I’ll say, I would not do that that risk is really, really high, you’re better off in a larger state in a larger MSA or populated area. That’s just too risky. So I would say I am still very, very bullish on multifamily stick to the larger cities with a large population and employment. I think we’re fine, but I think it’s gonna get a little get a little rocky here and then in soon.

WS: We need to plan for it to be rocky anyway. Right? I know, almost no matter what the market is doing. I want to plan for it to be rocky, I’m sure I’ve got the right tires on right, you know, for those rocks that are ahead. You know, with that thought, how do you like to see an operator prepare for a potential downturn? We don’t really know what’s going to happen next month or six months from now, right? But when you’re looking, you know, you’re going to be passive in a deal. What do you like to see what are some key things that say, you know, what, I can tell that this operator or He’s conservative or whatever, and what does that mean to you though? Like, how do you see that?

MH: The number one thing is the stress test, and a good syndicator will show you that okay, we can go down to 65% occupancy, and still make money and still cashflow that’s probably the number one indicator. Have they taken a look at that and are they willing to share that with me? Because some deals may be 80% You know, they’re 98 now but if you go down below 80% Now they’re not profitable in the distribution stop. So I’d say that’s the number one thing will stress test the deal and then just do normal things. Are they are they over bullish on rent gross for example, on our we’ve got a 506 C that I can loosely talk about right now. It may be gone before this airs, but I can say well, costar says that our rents are $538 below market. We underwrote in our projections we only counted $250 Even though the market is saying we could probably go up to 500 But we didn’t take the $500 and put it in our underwriting. 

So yeah, investors know we were very concerned that no, we’re going to do 250. Because who knows what’s going to happen in the future? If we can’t get the units renovated because of supplies or Labor’s and things like that. But that’s what I like to see is an ideal sponsor say, okay, that’s really conservative, because you’ve, you’ve shown me, here’s what the market says, this is independent data $538 a month, you’re saying you’re gonna only get 250 like that, but I’ll see deals in the same market, there’ll be pushing our rents are gonna go 450. Okay, I know the market says it’s 500. But really do I want invest in that one of the one that says they’re going to do to fit, because I know these guys have stress test on this, not the higher number. So that’s probably the key things. 

Just take a look at the numbers, talk to somebody that’s invested in other deals, have lots of people have asked my opinion ideas that aren’t even my own. I’ll give them my honest opinion. Thumbs up, thumbs down. And here’s why. So make sure you’re talking to other people that have invested and see what their take is on. Well, just like you ask me, Whitney.

WS: How are you increasing your deal flow right now? It’s difficult, obviously, with what’s happening with debt and whatnot. But how are you increasing your deal flow?

MH: I’ve got some fabulous partners in the deal is once you get a deal with a with a property owner or a seller, you’re more likely getting another deal. So the one the big one in Florida right now, Ricardo, that business partner is bought in a property from them earlier this year. And that’s why we got this property. So it’s really it’s it’s a very, you hear a very unfair business, it’s who you know, and who knows you really the accounts. So deal flow is not a problem for me at all. I’ve got other people, and I’m in a mastermind, too. 

So I’ve got a core group of people I’ve known for years and years and years that I know like and trust that and they’ve got deal flow like crazy. So I’ve get calls once a week. Hey, Matt, can you help me raise money in this deal? You help me in this deal. And he said, I’m in two deals right now. That’s all I can do, you know, put me on your list for the future. So that’s not an issue from Fortunately, I’m in a group of some really strong performers that have got a great track record. So what is buyers always are what a seller is always looking for a buyer is certainty of clothes, they don’t want you to tie up that property for 45 or 60 days, and then not close on it. We have certainty of close, we have a track record that we’re going to close on this deal if we get it. And I think that’s really why it’s not been an issue for me and my group. 

WS: And it takes some time to develop that right. And you just can’t get yours, right? I mean, it’s yours. Nobody, nobody has a track record when they start typically on their own. So Matt, what’s your best source for meeting new investors right now?

MH: Ah, you’ve saturate you know, your friends and family. And then you go to the next circle and the next circle, I’m out the next circle out. So I’m really working in social media to help people there, I’m going to be launching a LinkedIn campaign that that’s going to outreach to other I worked for Dow Chemical fortune 100 company, though, I’ve got lots of friends that have worked there still or that have retired from there that probably have all of their money in the stock market, at least get some of it out. 

So that’s kind of my mission is to start with my friends on the outer group that they know of me are aware of me, there’s probably 1000 people that were at manager executive level that would really benefit from this. So that’s my next step really is looking at and we’re working on right now a campaign to help other people like me, that was suckered in to listen to what Wall Street said when I was in my 20s. I put all my money in the stock market in my 401k. So that’s really what I’m focused right now is that our outer circle helping people.

WS: What are some of the most important metrics that you track? It could be personally, professionally, it could be how many times you exercise during the week? Or it could be how many calories or how many deals you’re under. Right?

MH: Wow, that’s really good. Right now. It’s the marketing metrics. I mean, are we’ve got a market my wife is a phenomenal marketer. She’s a retired marketing director, so she does all my marketing and reluctantly does my website. So we’re really looking at stats on that. Are people seeing are they seeing our website? How much traffic are we seeing there? How many downloads are we getting? Have a rethink your retirement guide, and things like that, because that’s more people we can help. That’s one of the key metrics and my personal life. I ride a bicycle every other day. I do yoga every night before I go to bed. I’m very, very spiritual that way. Yeah, a little bit. I have crystals at my desk. Yes, I’m a little woo-woo. But it works. It’s my life. So those are the types of things that I that I kind of measure or measure my success on happiness. Really.

WS: What about some habits and you mentioned a few, but habits you’re disciplined about that have produced the highest return for you?

I think there’s a positive mindset and it’s hard sometimes before I go to bed, I say my mantras and all the things I’m grateful my family, my friends, and, and things like that. I think that’s really just being centered and being grateful that that’s probably my biggest secret to my success, because things aren’t easy things. I mean, it’s appears everything’s great and easy and simple. It’s not. We go through struggles just like everybody else does. It’s just a matter of, you know, it’s all up here. It’s mindsets, almost everything. So I think that’s really my secret to my success.

WS: How do you like to get back?

MH:  Really working with other individuals that are trying to get into multifamily and prevent them from being fleeced in any way. There are a couple of individuals that have come to me say, hey, you know, if I get a deal, I’ll help them through the deal. Or, again, anybody off the street wants my opinion. And again, it’s my opinion, I’m not licensed to financial planner, or a CPA, or whatever. 

So I make sure they know that. But I want to guide you in the right direction to prevent you from making mistakes, most importantly, and just really flourishing. And, you know, getting the financial freedom that you’re really looking for like we all I think are ultimately wanting to do that. It’s just great to get up in the morning. I go to bed at three or four in the morning, I get up at noon every day. That’s my schedule because that’s my body’s schedule. I can do that. I mean, if you don’t have control over your time, you can’t do that. Can’t live that way so.

WS: That’s awesome. That’s an interesting sleep schedule as well. Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, Matt, a pleasure to have you on the show grateful for it is breaking down some do’s, don’ts, and things that have helped you to be a successful passive investor. Now obviously, you’re helping lots of people just learn about hey, you can use your retirement money to invest and grow it probably a lot faster hopefully, you know, in real estate right? There is an option there. So how can listeners get in touch with you and learn more about you?

MH: Just go to hansenholdings.com And I know Whitney will have in the show notes. And we’ve got lots of resources, learning materials there. I know people what you need to learn, learn learn. So we’ve got lots of articles there. We’ve got the download, you’re rethinking retirement that talks about just exactly what we were saying how to take your money from yourself to your IRA to self-directed IRA and just an overall benefits and challenges in that passively invest in real estate. I would full disclosure, I want you to know what you’re getting into. So that’s really the best thing get there get educated, watch Whitney show definitely too that’ll help you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[OUTRO]

Whitney Sewell: Thank you for being with us again today, I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. I hope you’re telling your friends about the Real Estate Syndication Show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to LifeBridgeCapital.com and start investing today.

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