WS596: Creating or Leveraging Your Brand to Build a Successful Podcast with Erik Cabral

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Real Estate Syndication Show. Whether you are a seasoned investor or building a new real estate business, this is the show for you. Whitney Sewell talks to top experts in the business. Our goal is to help you master real estate syndication.

And now your host, Whitney Sewell.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:24.2] WS: This is your daily Real Estate Syndication Show. I’m your host, Whitney Sewell. Today, our guest is Erik Cabral. Thanks for being on the show, Erik.

[0:00:33.8] EC: Absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[0:00:35.8] WS: Yeah, I’m happy to have you on the show. You and I got to meet at a conference, what? Six months ago, eight or 10 months ago. I can’t remember now when that was. Maybe it was last spring.

[0:00:44.8] EC: Feels like a lifetime ago, when the world was totally different then, huh?

[0:00:48.5] WS: It was totally different. No doubt about that. A little about Erik; he’ll elaborate more of course, but he left corporate America after 22 years, invested in real estate without knowing anyone who invests. Built a couple of companies that services the REI community with branding, marketing and podcasting. When I seen Erik, he was exploding, this is the branding platform or podcasting brand that I know he’s going to tell us about. He’s an expert in branding and podcasting. I know that many of the listeners – like I talk to many of you, so often you call me every week, or different people will and ask me about podcasting, ask me about how we branded different things and this is the guy that can help us today.

Erik, welcome to the show. Thank you again for your time.

[0:01:33.6] EC: So happy to be here. Really, when we were talking before the mics turned on, and you were like, “Man, this is something that’s constantly coming up.” I’m like, “Oh, I’m so happy  I can help the audience,” because as a real estate investor that I am, but I’m really heavily focused on branding and podcasting, and so I’m like, “Oh, this is great. Let’s talk about my strength right now,” because yeah, you’ve got a ton of experts get to talk about real estate. Yeah, it’s good. I’m happy to be here.

[0:01:56.7] WS: Awesome. Well, happy to have you here. Like I said, I know that a lot of the listeners are contemplating starting a podcast, contemplating how to brand themselves. It seems like such an overwhelming thing to begin, or to tackle when you’re just starting this whole thing and all of us have been there one time or another. I remember very well.

Erik, I really like for you to get us started and let’s say, somebody just came to you and said, “Erik, what do I need to do? I want to launch a real estate brand, but I just don’t know where to start.”

Maybe you could lay out a few steps for us some things to think about and we’ll jump in a little deeper.

[0:02:30.5] EC: Yeah. I mean, one of the first things I ask people when they come to me with question or that request is why? Why do you want a podcast? “Well, everyone’s doing it.” That’s not really the best, or a good enough reason. What’s the other reason? “Well, I want to build an audience.” Okay, why? Keep asking the five why. Keep digging deeper and deeper and deeper. Eventually, if you get to a really good answer like, “I want to help a community. I want to grow and expand my network and provide value to my listeners or to my investors.” That’s a good answer. Let’s start talking a little bit more about it.

If you have a mission, something as strong as Whitney’s, where he’s trying to provide value to his investors with great returns, but then also he has a deeper mission as far as trying to provide children, orphan children with loving homes, that pulls on your heartstrings. That’s someone I want to talk to as far as like, “Yes, let’s build that brand because you have a grand vision, you have an abundance mindset, you want to build and grow something that’s going to make it impact on the world.”

No pressure, right? I mean, everyone, yes, has a podcast, but these podcasts don’t have you, right? There’s something unique about you and your story and your experience that we need to shine a light on. If you are confident enough to share that story and be vulnerable on your show and to your guests, then absolutely launch your podcast. But know that when you jump in, you have to commit. You have to know this is not something that you can just dip your toe in and then say, “I’ll record an episode next month.”

I mean, Whitney’s doing it – he’s one of the extreme cases, where he’s developed systems and processes and teams and does it every single day. You can do that, yes. You could scale to that, or try to commit to that right from the beginning, or you can say at least, at the very least, I ask people, can you commit at least to one episode a week, at the very least? One a month, two a month is not enough. The algorithms, all the stuff in the background wants consistency.

That’s the next thing is consistency in your podcasting, your production, whatever it is you’re putting out there has to be consistent and that goes across all everything; social media, the way it looks, Whitney’s brand is very consistent, when you look up his show and it’s the same on the website, on the social media, on the podcast. That’s another thing I really highly recommend people to be very conscious from a macro level. What does it look like as a whole to the people that I’m trying to get their attention from? Who am I trying to reach and how does it look from that 10,000 foot view?

[0:05:13.6] WS: I hear it all the time. I know you probably do too. You hit on this, but I’d love for you to just spend another maybe one more minute on it. There’s so many podcasts, how am I going to stand out? I know you said, well, you’re unique, but I still get, “How am I going to stand out? There’s so many podcasts? Or maybe I should do something different.”

[0:05:29.0] EC: Yeah. Yeah, like I said, it’s the whole snowflake thing. Yes, there’s many of them, but everything and everyone is unique. When you get into the podcasting, or you start creating a show, when you start to interview people well, you’re going to do it in such a way, you’re going to ask questions in such a way that is different, because you’re different.

Now yes, there’s ways to distinguish yourself by doing a little homework, researching the guest if you’re going to have an interview format, because there are some people that can do a solo show, where they provide value by doing 5, 15-minute episodes, sharing the strategies or tips that they’re implementing in their business. That’s an easier lift; if you do want to try and dip your toe in. Then if you’re going to do an interview format, which is all the rage, do your research.

I highly recommend that you listen to podcasts of where they’ve been guests, your guest has already been a guest, or if they have their own podcast, listen to at least one episode. Because what’s going to happen is when you interview them, they’re going to appreciate the fact that you’ve done your homework. You know them. You know how many kids they have. You know all about their business, or about what it is they’re passionate about. Then it’s going to really prime for a wonderful conversation.

That’s what’s going to be able to distinguish you from others, because there’s a lot of people out there and you know this, Whitney. We listen to shows, especially in our space, they’re doing it just to do it and you could tell their heart’s not in it, right? They don’t have a passion, or a drive. If you’re not a good listener, I wouldn’t suggest that – recommend that podcast is a great platform for you, because you have to be a wonderful listener, have your family or friends say, “Man, you’re such a good listener.” Then maybe your podcast is perfect for you.

[0:07:17.2] WS: It will shine, right, if you’re a good listener.

[0:07:20.1] EC: Yeah. If you’re a good listener, because another thing that I would recommend that you can stand out is aside from doing your homework is trying to probe and ask questions that normally aren’t asked. Then pulling things out, like everyone’s doing this and I’m guilty of this too. What’s your origin story? We all pick that up, especially if we’re BiggerPockets fans. They did a wonderful job. They got me into podcasting actually. That was the thing. Tell me your story. Which seems natural, but that is the norm.

If you could figure out a way just to break open, we didn’t do that here, which is great. It’s like, start the conversation right away, that would be a differentiator. There’s many different strategies that can set you apart from the crowd.

[0:08:02.5] WS: What about best tips for promoting your podcast? I know there’s lots of launch tips, ways to launch it well. What about show that’s already been launched for a while? What’s the best tips for promoting?

[0:08:13.6] EC: Yeah. Well, obviously social media, right? This takes a little bit of work and I highly recommend, if you don’t have a VA, look into people that can help you from this level, because this is very administrative, something that the $2 to $4 an hour person can help you with. By taking content you’ve created, taking this podcast for instance, listening to it with the intention of saying, “I’m going to pull out the nuggets.” I’m going to pull out all the gold. You ask your VA, “I only need three to four soundbytes of 10 to 30 seconds long.”

Then what they could do if they have that skill set and you can find these folks, they’re all out there, can you create a visual promotion from that? I could have an audio clip, but then now can you create a visual? We call them audiograms. That’s what we build and create for our clients. Every episode that goes out, we create one audiogram that’s 15 seconds, another one that’s 30 seconds. Then this is a harder lift; if there’s video, you can actually take those clips and put out very Gary V style, clips of your actual podcast.

That is really a magical formula, because you take the audio experience and you turn it into a visual experience. Then now, you’re attracting different audiences, because there’s certain people that love to watch and there’s certain people that love to just listen. Now you’re coming at them from all angles.

[0:09:38.4] WS: Nice. Great advice. I love the VA tip as well. I couldn’t have done this without many VAs, virtual assistants. What social media platforms? There’s tons of those as well and the different requirements, different links of video, or text, or whatever that may be, where should we focus if we can only pick a couple?

[0:09:58.0] EC: Yeah, yeah. I get that question a lot too. It all depends on what your goal is and also who you think your audience is. You could play really nicely in the LinkedIn space, because there’s professionals there, there are people who have capital to invest. LinkedIn is a really good place for that. Although, video is still in beta there, so you can do it, but it’s very short bursts, but they don’t have live-streaming like Facebook.

Facebook is a great platform if you decide to do video, or do a video component of your podcast to push it out on Facebook, or even go live. You see a lot of people now during this time have figured out ways to go live on their podcasts. There are platforms such as Zoom, or another wonderful one that we’re using a lot now is called StreamYard, where you can put graphics on your podcast and it looks very professional. You can cut to different individuals. You can have calls to action behind you, or around you.

There’s really so many ways that we can leverage the high-quality tools to start incorporating very easily now, given that we have time, we’re at home, we’re creating content and really just figuring it out, because it’s not rocket science. It’s up to you how – I would concentrate on content first. Then if visual and video is not your bag, then find someone who’s doing and say, “How are you doing this?” If it sounds like something you’re not interested in, either ask for their help, or just stick to the audio format. Audio and podcasting is really relatively simple. If you don’t get intimidated by all the other things that happen as a result if you do it successfully.

[0:11:40.7] WS: Yeah. You got to get started, right?

[0:11:41.9] EC: You got to get started. Yeah.

[0:11:43.8] WS: I tell people like, “You’re not going to get to the 20^th show if you don’t do the first one. Your 20^th one’s going to be so much better than the first one.” What about that call to action? What can we ask for during a podcast interview, say to our audience? What do you recommend?

[0:11:58.1] EC: Yeah. Well, the boiler plate, “Please like, subscribe and share it with your friends and family,” is always the best way to activate. Then again, people start to get numb to that, I’ve noticed. There are ways to reach out to people. If you have an e-mail system, you can add it in your newsletter. You could say, “Hey, here’s a link. We appreciate it.” Offer something. “We have some swag, or I have a white paper, or I have something that I can give to you if you give me a review, or you give me a like, or you give me a rating on iTunes. That would go a long way to help us build this community.” That I highly recommend finding ways.

We found a lot of success with the clients that are really, for lack of a better word, aggressive about that. Like, “Hey, like, subscribe. We’ll give you a t-shirt. We’ll give you some swag.” It works. It works, especially if you’re launching a show. There’s a eight-week window for you to get a ton of ratings written and also stars that could get you on the charts, that can get you noticed by iTunes.

[0:13:00.8] WS: Nice. That could be expensive, right? If we’re doing t-shirts and that many t-shirts, or mugs, or hats, or whatever it is you’re giving out.

[0:13:08.9] EC: I’ll tell you this. Here’s another one. Go to teepublic.com. I have no stake. I have no equity in this company, but we use TeePublic as our merch page. It’s great, because all you have to do is upload your logo and they’ll ship it, they’ll create it and there’s no quantity. You can do a one-off.

[0:13:29.8] WS: They send the customer or the buyer as well?

[0:13:33.2] EC: Exactly. When we have fans or followers react or engage with us, we say, “Send us your e-mail or your home address.” We’ll just go right to TeePublic. Buy it and mail it to them. It’s 15 bucks for a mug, 20 bucks for a t-shirt. They often have sales, where you can get a t-shirt for $13.

If you don’t have marketing dollars in your company, because a lot of us, a lot of solopreneurs, or small businesses don’t necessarily allocate money to invest in marketing, consider this your marketing. “Hey, listen. Like, subscribe. If you do, I’ll send you a t-shirt. I’ll send you a mug.” $15 for that brand advocate, or that person that’s going to be a champion for you is well worth 15 bucks.

[0:14:14.8] WS: Yes. For sure. No doubt about it. Well, another question that I get often is if someone’s going to interview podcasts or just getting started, they feel it’s going to be hard for them to get people on the show, because they’re just getting started. It’s brand new podcast. Because people have seen, “Whitney, you had numerous bigger name real estate investors, syndicators in the show really early on.” How did you do that and how do you recommend people to get those people on the show?

[0:14:40.9] EC: I recommend first, starting your podcast asking your closest friends, people in the industry that will say yes. Once you start to build a catalog and it doesn’t have to be a 100. You could very well have eight, a dozen, up there. Because what’s going to happen if you ask the Robert Kiyosakis, or you ask the Grand Cardones to be on your show, not them, but their VAs will look the show up. They’re going to Google it. If there’s nothing on Google, if they can’t even find it, they’ll most likely say no.

What you want to do is have a catalog of shows, of people that you’ve interviewed, the brand is consistent, your releases are consistent and your brand is searchable. They can find it when they look it up. Then you’re increasing your chances of getting the Kiyosakis, the Kim Kiyosakis, whoever it is you want on your show.

Prime example, I think I was only 14 or 15 episodes into my show and I asked Randi Zuckerberg, who basically built Facebook as we know it. She created Facebook Live, she created fan pages, all the cool stuff that Mark wasn’t concentrating on, because he’s the zeros and ones guy. All you have to do is ask. They’ll say yes. But the thing is they’ll look it up first. They’ll see if it’s a legit thing if it’s worth their time. If they like what they hear – Oh, another thing as far as consistency is concerned; you want your episodes to be consistent. If it’s going to be 30 minutes, let it be 30 minutes. If it’s going to be an hour, it’s going to be an hour. If they look it up and they see, “Yeah, okay. Whitney has 50 episodes up, there but it’s 10 minutes, it’s an hour, it’s 15 minutes.” They won’t know what they’re committing to.

I would recommend you make sure it’s consistent and just start by asking the people you know. I’ll tell you this, Whitney. 100% of the people I’ve asked to be in my show have said yes. That goes to show, the industry is very open. People want to be on shows.

[0:16:34.0] WS: Tell me how you ask them. I want to know exactly how you’re asking them. Is it a phone call? Is it a personalized letter? What is that?

[0:16:43.4] EC: Yeah. There’s many different approaches. Personally, I ask in person in a networking event. If we’re in a networking event, I won’t walk up to someone and say, “Hey, would you be on my podcast?” We have a conversation. We get to know each other. I said, “Hey, you’re fascinating to me and I usually only want to ask – I usually only ask people that inspire me with their story and I’d love to have you on my show, if you’re interested.” They’ll always 100% of the time say, “Oh, yeah. Just e-mail me.”

Granted, I have not approached Grant Cardone, or Gary V, or anyone huge, that’s a different strategy. You got to go through the gatekeeper. When you have direct one-to-one, which in our industry we do, just go up to them. Have a conversation and say, “Hey, I’d love to chat with you for a little bit on my show. I’d really appreciate it.”

[0:17:32.1] WS: You haven’t asked me yet either, but I’ll give you my assistant’s e-mail. She can shut you down.

[0:17:40.0] EC: Well, I’ll ask you on the show on the spot. Yeah, would you be on my show?

[0:17:45.4] WS: Of course. I’m kidding. That’s some great advice here. I just get that often. People are worried about not being able to get people on their show, not being able to get bigger name people on their show. I have to say you got to ask. I tell people, be professional. I think that’s what we did, because everything we did, we just tried to make it extremely organized, very simple, but very professional. I think that showed and a lot of bigger names agreed very early on before they knew who I was for sure. What about making money with podcasting? Can you make money podcasting?

[0:18:14.7] EC: You can. Not in a traditional sense. A lot of people ask and I’m sure they ask you as well, “How do I monetize this?” Well, you don’t have a podcast yet, so why are you thinking about making money from it? It’s like having a baby and then stamping Fun That Flip, or whatever BiggerPockets on your forehead. Why are you branding something that’s in its infancy? You want to come off authentic. You don’t want to come off as, “Hey, I’m here to make money, folks.”

You want to provide value, you want to be able to give people something that they can actually implement within your show, or bring on guests that will do that for you. I don’t recommend people think of it that way. It’s very scratch the surface thinking, where it’s deeper than that. You have to think of it as long-term and committing to it for a minimum, a year, and think of it as like, “I’m in this for 100 episodes,” because that’s where you’ll start to see the ROI. That’s where you’re going to see it paying dividends, because of the relationships you’re forming.

I always say, the magic happens when the mic turns off. It’s not about the actual interview, it’s actually about the relationships that I’m forming with the person on the other side. I’m telling you, there’s – here’s a cool example. The top three downloads of my show, those people are business partners now. That’s where the ROI comes in. You’re making money, or you’re getting into deals that you normally wouldn’t be privy to, because now that person sees you as a thought leader. They see you as someone that gave them a platform and now you’re like – they’re thanking you and then also, it’s open to like, “Hey, we know each other now. How can we work together? How can we do business?” I would go into it thinking, I’m going in here with the opportunity to talk to people that I normally would never have been able to talk to.

[0:20:00.9] WS: Couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. After the show is the most important time. Unfortunately, I’m doing so many shows, I don’t always get as much time as I would like, but I do try to schedule time just for that, because it is so important. What’s the way you’ve improved your podcast recently, or something that you’ve learned about that we could apply to ours?

[0:20:19.9] EC: It’s good question. We’re always testing and tweaking things. We’ve produced shows where we create completely custom introductions for clients and ourselves, but we found that yes, that resonates with people and it distinguishes your show from others. But I think getting quick to the point, the meat-and-potatoes, having a shorter introduction, 15 seconds, 10 seconds, where you’re in and you’re out and then you go right into – We’re trying to get better about our interview style in terms of the small talk, the private jokes, things like that I’m trying to be more aware of, because the majority of people want to know right away, “What’s in it for me? What am I getting out of this episode?”

We’re trying to be more deliberate about that at the beginning of the show. Like, “Hey, guys. Here’s what you’re going to get.” As opposed to just like, “Hey, this is just me and my pal chatting here and we’re having a beer.” I don’t think people are very interested in that.

[0:21:11.8] WS: They’re not wanting to waste their time listening to you drinking a beer.

[0:21:15.7] EC: Yeah. A lot of people are like, “I’m going to start a podcast and I’m just going to shoot the crap with my buddy here and we’re going to smoke some cigars and drink some beers.” That’s fun for you, but I don’t know how much fun that is for the listener.”

[0:21:25.4] WS: Right. It goes back to your why and your goal of it creating a podcast, right?

[0:21:29.5] EC: Yeah. Yeah.

[0:21:31.5] WS: What about the one thing that’s contributed to your success?

[0:21:35.3] EC: Networking, meeting people. That’s why I miss dearly what we had. This time that we’re in now is truly letting us appreciate and allowing us to appreciate what we had. It’s so important, Whitney. You understand a meeting face-to-face. What’s great about podcasting is it sets the stage, the early stages of the know, like and trust factor. They get to know you through your show, they get to like you through your show and whatever else you’re putting out there on the interwebs.

Then it’s the meeting in person, shaking hands, looking into each other’s eyes and saying, “This is the guy I want to do business with. I already knew I liked him and now we can take this relationship, or this partnership further.” I think that that’s critical is networking and meeting people as a result. Starting a show, starting a podcast, starting a brand with the intention of forming deeper relationships.

[0:22:30.8] WS: How do you like to give back?

[0:22:33.0] EC: Through education. We call it in the industry, edutainment. We do a lot of shows where we talk about business strategies and tips that can be implemented. Man, we do that on a weekly basis for free, just putting it out there, viewing people, talking amongst the team about how growth strategies and what we’re going through and how we’re pivoting. That’s really what we love to do is just provide value.

[0:22:56.3] WS: Awesome. Erik, amazing show. Grateful for your time and you being so willing to share your expertise. I know the listeners, many like I said, I know are contemplating starting that podcast and many of these things we’ve talked about. I know I get questions so often about. I’m sure you do too. I hope we were able to help them in a big way. How can they get in touch with you and learn more about you?

[0:23:16.3] EC: Yeah, absolutely. They can e-mail me directly, [email protected], or you can see what we do. We have onairbrands.com and we also have our podcasting event at podmax.co.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:23:29.8] WS: Don’t go yet. Thank you for listening to today’s episode. I would love it if you would go to iTunes right now and leave a rating and written review. I want to hear your feedback. It makes a big difference in getting the podcast out there. You can also go to the Real Estate Syndication Show on Facebook, so you can connect with me and we can also receive feedback and your questions there that you want me to answer on the show. Subscribe too, so you can get the latest episodes.

Lastly, I want to keep you updated, so head over to lifebridgecapital.com and sign up for the newsletter. If you’re interested in partnering with me, sign up on the contact us page so you can talk to me directly. Have a blessed day and I will talk to you tomorrow.

[OUTRO]

[0:24:10.1] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for listening to The Real Estate Syndication Show, brought to you by Lifebridge Capital. Lifebridge Capital works with investors nationwide to invest in real estate while also donating 50% of its profits to assist parents who are committing to adoption. Lifebridge Capital, making a difference one investor and one child at a time. Connect online at www.LifeBridgeCapital.com for free material and videos to further your success.

[END]