WS787: The Best Strategies to Profit with Commercial Real Estate with Terry Hale

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Real Estate Syndication Show. Whether you are a seasoned investor or building a new real estate business, this is the show for you. Whitney Sewell talks to top experts in the business. Our goal is to help you master real estate syndication.

And now your host, Whitney Sewell.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:00:24] WS: This is your daily real estate syndication show. I’m your host, Whitney Sewell. Today, our guest is Terry Hale. Thanks for being on the show, Terry.

[00:00:32] TH: Hey. Thanks for having me, Whitney. Looking forward to it.

[00:00:34] WS: Now, Terry is an active investor, trainer, and CEO of a private commercial real estate firm that provides acquisitions for all commercial property types and investment opportunities. The firm executes value-add strategies through direct and joint venture investments. Terry’s commercial real estate training provides the techniques on how to find, pre-screen, evaluate, structure, and use negotiation tactics for repositioning and stabilizing commercial properties.

Just getting to talk to Terry a little bit before the interview, it’s incredible just to hear the length of experience and different types of real estate investing and commercial real estate that he has, so a pleasure to have you on the show, Terry, a pleasure to get to meet you. Give the listeners a little more about who you are, and let’s dive into the commercial real estate business a little bit.

[00:01:20] TH: Yes, yes. I love this stuff, Whitney. Thanks again for having me. I really appreciate it. I’ve heard nothing but great things about your show, and now it’s wonderful to be a part of it. I do have a 25 years’ experience moving forward and basically identifying properties that are ready for repositioning, meaning filling vacancies, raising rents, stabilizing. So we have a T12 going back to the market, trading it at market cap, selling these properties at top dollar at their highest and best use. That was like a strategy I used for a long time once I got my niche down to a science.

Then, of course, if the deal is really good, location, location, location, and it’s pulling in cash flow after debt service, depending on the structure we put together, getting creative, then we go ahead and hold those on our long-term portfolio. Primarily, at any point of a potential recessionary situation, we want recessionary-proof properties. So we focus on these value-add opportunities for self-storage and also multifamily, some RV parks, some mobile home parks. Those are basically the sectors that we look into.

I’ll just give a little bit of background of how I started out. I think that’s important for folks to know that I’m qualified to be both on your show and as a trainer, mentor, and being out there as a seasoned investor. So when I first started out in this business, what I started recognizing were opportunities to look at a certain formula that a lot of standard investors use, waiting which is the cap rate formula. Looking at that cap rate formula, I get out there and I look for property, dig around. This was even before the resource of the Internet was available. So I was out there traveling, really pounding the pavement, and doing it old school style. I hate to age myself by saying that but it’s part of it.

I recall one deal in particular where um I’m out here in California and I was in Florida. It was right around Fourth of July and it was so hot, a different type of heat. I remember sitting there speaking with this gentleman about this opportunity. It was on John Young Parkway by the Millenia Mall. Maybe some of your listeners know it. I was looking at this project. It was a ground-up type of opportunity. I was just going to do acquisitions and secure the land, and then I would just sell it off to builders and developers. That was part of my strategy at the beginning of my career.

In that hot sun, it was so humid. I almost fainted right there in front of this guy. He asked. He said, “Well, why do you travel all the way out here? We could have just done business over the phone?” That was kind of like my aha moment into, okay, there’s other ways to do business and more efficient ways and by doing so and just using the phone and being able to smile and dial and connect with people and really honing in on the fact that I need to focus on reposition property where people have to sell not just one sell. That’s kind of how I entered into doing what I do today.

We move forward. We tie up anywhere between a deal with three deals a week. It’s a massive amount of energy that goes into it. I have my folks that are sitting just across me right here in my office even today doing acquisitions, and we’re basically thrown against the wall and see if it sticks and make sense of it. If it looks good, we go ahead and put our time and energy to take it to the next level.

[00:04:53] WS: That’s awesome. I appreciate you elaborating too just on your experience and what you all are up to now. Maybe you could – I wanted to back up just a little bit. You talked about like getting your niche down to a science. Maybe you could just speak to the importance of that. Does that mean to you just finding one kind of asset class or – Obviously, you’re talking about the reposition properties. Maybe you could highlight that a little bit. But how has that changed your business, just really finding your niche and even getting it down to a science like you mentioned?

[00:05:23] TH: It’s changed like dramatically because before, like I was saying, we throw everything against the wall to see if it sticks. Time is your most precious asset. So if you’re out there and you’re working with projects and you don’t have really a laser focus and you’re more so like doing that shotgun approach, just kind of sporadic. It’s just going after all these different, as you mentioned, asset classes and different locations. It’s kind of like being blindfolded with a handful of darts being thrown at the map wand you’re all over the place. How can you justify a good opportunity and an investment of your time and energy and capital to move on?

So we’ve really toned it down. We started looking at certain markets that are appreciating. We do look at crime reports obviously, like all the basics that any investor that’s been in the game just for a very short period of time would want to know. We want to know are more U-Hauls coming in or more going out. We want to understand exactly is there large master plan communities coming in. Is the place saturated? If you’re dealing with self-storage, how many other facilities in the area? Are you the big fish, the small fish? All these little things come into play as far as our metric of how we move forward.

Then I really hone my skill set for myself and my team and all my clients that are out there to use something that, Whitney, I call a three-prong approach. Diving deep into really my niche, we’re looking at dollar per door, we’re looking at dollar per square foot, and we’re looking at an income approach. A lot of times, we’re looking at these reposition properties, so they don’t qualify for bank financing because the books are so bad. There really is not a P&L. There’s not a trailing 12 months.

So if it comes down to it like I literally just put this deal under contract two weeks ago and I’ve been waiting for the P&L and for all of the expenses and everything to come through and all the supportive info for my due diligence, and it came through on handwritten pieces of paper that were scanned in. I hand it to my guy, Matt. I’m like, “Here try to make sense of this one.” So taking that time and energy, we need to understand that a lot of these deals, they don’t have intelligent documentation, and so we’re very patient with that. We have to look at it as replacement value, as if it fell to the ground. What would it cost to replace it? That’s going to be our dollar per square foot or a dollar per door if there really isn’t any deferred maintenance. Or if there is deferred maintenance, we need to add that to our purchase price to know what our total skin in the game is going to be on our purchase.

Once we kind of dial all that in, we look at an income approach, and this might sound crazy to some of your listeners. But we’re buying property that is ready for repositioning, that is suffering, and we’re buying it for 10 cap with terms. I have four deals right now. All four of these deals, and I’m just talking specifically about these, they have 10-year seller finance notes, which is amazing. They’re all low on cash outlay but they need – Where the capital goes is not so much into the repositioning of the property as far as the cosmetic and deferred maintenance. It’s more so into plugging it through with either an e-commerce for self-storage or getting the right management for multifamily.

Believe it or not, that takes some time. It takes some energy, so I’m not dishing a magic pill here. It takes time, and I’m sure your listeners that are out there being investors, they know. They have to pick and choose the right deals. If you don’t, then you could end up taking over a headache that can’t be cured. So we’re very careful in our niche with acquisitions.

[00:09:00] WS: I like that. I like how you just call it getting it down to a science and I think that’s where you’re really going to start to see things to speed up for you, right? You called it like a recessionary-proof property. Elaborate on that a little bit and just what you see is that recessionary-proof property, what that means to you.

[00:09:16] TH: Yeah. I don’t have a crystal ball [inaudible 00:09:18] in the shop, right? So I can’t predict the future. But the fact is as we’re all in this current timeline, there’s still all those people and 50 million plus unemployed, and there’s all this money that’s supposed to be supportive for these people. That’s eventually going to dry up or they’re going to have to go print more money. I’m not sure what’s going to happen but I know there’s going to be a ripple effect down the road somewhere.

When that happens during a recession, you got a house. Someone’s living in that house. They lose that house. They have to downsize. Where do they move into? They go into multifamily or they’ll live in their RV or sometimes unfortunately their car and try to park it on an RV. Or they’ll move into seriously affordable housing which is mobile home parks. That’s why those are recessionary. Then if they downsize, especially businesses closing, they’re not just going to get rid of all their stuff.

I was looking at statistics which I’m sure a lot of people have seen the same statistics, and they show that self-storage is so low on the risk factor. There’s only one less risky which is data centers, which is pretty amazing. In my forward thinking, people will eventually pay their bill if their average storage is 50 bucks. But if someone’s rent happens to be 750 or 1,000, they need to eat first, but they can fall behind a couple of months and then scrape together some change out of the couch to pay their self-storage bills. So that’s why it’s so less risky.

But self-storage is not just my main focus. I’m really looking at all different property types and I authored recently. I self-published a book called The Two Best Strategies to Profit with Commercial Real Estate. The two strategies are, one, is to locate the ideal property that can survive a down market and hold it as far as part of your portfolio. Then the other strategy is to, as you said, pre-screen, evaluate the beginning of our call and really identify a great opportunity, create some great terms with negotiation tactics, and then offer that back to a wholesale list, so people can get out there and take advantage of our efforts of putting a deal together.

[00:11:31] WS: Nice to know. That’s awesome. I just appreciate you elaborating even on self-storage as well and some of the statistics and things we need to be looking at. You said in the beginning you started using a cap rate formula. Could you just tell the listener like what does that mean and then has that changed?

[00:11:48] TH: Right. So what was taught to me a long time ago is your standard cap rate formula which is all your gross income which is really basic, right? Then you itemize your expenses, and they have to be justifiable expenses. Once you take out those expenses, then you end up with your net income, and the standard formula is your NOI divided by your purchase price equals your cap rate, which is a double digit or a single digit number. The double digit, the higher the number, the better for the actual buyer because you’re not buying retail.

If you’re looking at a low cap like out here in California, we got crazy caps, man. We got like three-cap, four-cap, five-cap, six, and that means that you’re buying. Either you’re over overpaying for the property, and it’s going to take a while for you to break-even. Or what’s happening is you’re just buying into standard retail, like most of everything that’s for sale that folks will see out there like on LoopNet and [inaudible 00:12:41] and selfstorage.com and all these different websites where you can find these properties.

So what I started using is what I refer to as a 10-cap formula, and it’s very, very basic and super easy to use for anyone who’s just starting out and you want to identify a great deal. If you were to tell somebody, “Hey, I got a deal on a 10-cap as is. Not a forward-looking projection but an as is 10-cap,” they’re going to drool and they’re going to want the deal, right? Because if people hear about that, they’re like, “Well, I could make money right away because I’m buying so aggressive, meaning I’m buying very, very low.”

We buy only as is value. So if the as is net income, remember the gross minus expenses equals the net, if that net, that annual number is let’s say 53,000, well then our offer is going to be around 530,000 for a 10-cap. If it’s 61,000 NOI, it’s 610,000. So all we’re doing is just adding zeros and using that metric. It’s a very quick surefire way to just look at these deals and see something. Obviously, if you see it’s a $50,000 net income and they’re asking a million dollars for the property, then you know right away it’s like a five-cap, so you pass. How quick can someone just go on a website and just like rip through it and just look for deals that are sitting at 10-cap? Even some of these uh websites will have filters and then they have keyword searches where you can actually put in certain cap rates where you can go 8-cap to 12-cap. The fastest way to turn an 8-cap into a 10-cap is just offer them a lower purchase price. That’s it.

[00:14:21] WS: That would be the fastest way from the very beginning, right?

[00:14:24] TH: Yup, yup.

[00:14:26] WS: Tell me some of the systems that you have in place now to be able to do one to three deals a week. That’s very impressive.

[00:14:32] TH: Yeah. One of the ways that we pursue these deals is we’ve been constantly creating quality relationships and actually producing results. You know how it is. If you show somebody, “Hey, I can go ahead and close this deal. We can make money on a distressed property that no one else can move on and everyone is basically just pitching it and doing full lowball offers because they’re trying to get such a great deal.” But we get really creative which allows us to pay a little bit more for the property but we also can avoid having to go and get bank loans.

For example, I have self-storage in Tyler, Texas that just got tied up just about a week and a half ago, and it’s a smaller deal. It’s a turnkey deal. But the seller, he was super motivated because he was just basically out of gas. He didn’t want to deal with the property any longer. It’s gated. It’s fenced and gated, and it’s super clean, no deferred maintenance. He wanted a certain price for it because that’s what he owed, and we ended up giving him a little bit more than what he owed. At that point in time, he carried for 10 years five percent interest only for the first two years to keep our payment low and then five percent principal and interest on a 30-year amortization. So it stretched over 30 years for the remaining 8 years.

Our payment seriously, 310,000 is what’s the actual seller carried. I got in on that deal for 40 grand, and my debt service for the first two years is 1,250 and then it jumps up to 1,690. The deal will be cash flowing 4,300 right out of the gate, and it’s a 62-unit, and 30 of those units are actually filled to date with under market rents. All we need to do is get in there with a 90-day marketing plan. There’s tons of companies out there that’ll do a 60 to 90-day marketing plan for very inexpensive costs. They blanket the area both online and offline banners, pay-per-click, everything else, standard stuff in the industry. We feel confident that we can fill it within 90 days. Once it’s filled in 90 days, like I said, cash flowing over 4k a month.

That’s like a classic deal that that we’ll put under contract. Then what we do is I have something called the Commercial Buyers Club and the commercialbuyersclub.com. People can go there. They can see wholesale properties. We offer them back to our wholesale list and here’s why. I’ll offer that project back to the actual buyers list and tack on my additional 150,000 assignment fee. I’ll assign the contract and let somebody else take it. As people say, “Well, why would you do that?” Well, if you take simple math and you go 150,000 and divide that by 4,300, it’s going to take me around 36 months to get my money. So do I want to take my money and run now or wait three years?

It’s just a matter of taking paper from one side of the table and moving it to the other side, Whitney. We do that and, like I said, the bigger projects, the larger ones that that we can play appreciation and depreciation on and cash flow we keep. But these smaller little ones, we pop them off to the list and let somebody else take it run. That project in 10 years, it’ll trade to the seven-cap at full with the T12. It’ll be worth 800,000. It’s trading at a seven-cap, very justifiable numbers at current rents, high population, 110 pop in that immediate area, and it’s down the street from a Walmart. Someone told me once, “If you’re going to buy a property, make sure you can see a Walmart and you can smell McDonald’s.”

[00:18:09] WS: That’s probably good advice right there. Terry, what’s been the hardest part of your syndication journey or just in commercial real estate?

[00:18:16] TH: Yeah. Time. That’s it. Time can be a negative. If you’re moving on deals, everybody wants to ask for more time, but you have to be realistic. You can be optimistic but you have to be realistic. I think that’s the biggest deal killer is that you have a due diligence period, meaning your inspection period, then you have to close it. If you’re moving on these deals, a lot of times you can’t tie something up for 180 days. No one wants to wait a half a year. So you have to have your ducks in a row. There’s a lot of different ways to do it.

Fortunately, for me, I’ve created great relationships both local out here in Malibu ,a very affluent area, and from afar with places that I’ve visited and places I’ve been a speaker and trainer at and relationships that I’ve built. But as we know during certain times and certain conditions, especially with what’s happening here in the US economy, people like to keep their chips close to their chest too and they’re very cautious. I think they’ve been following Warren Buffett. Say no a lot.

[00:19:20] WS: Terry, how do you prepare for a potential downturn?

[00:19:24] TH: What I do is ramp up wholesaling and hang low and save dough. I think that that is the most sound bit of advice I can give anyone. There’s great opportunity all around us, and a lot of times we all want to be these folks that are out there, and we like to create because all humans like to create. We like to envision things. It’s our God-given right to live life in abundance, so we create things, right? With that, people love to do development. But I would really not like to see anyone get into a project and then have funds dry up and get stuck because that’s happened in the past as we know during the last downturn, and I think that’s kind of writing on the wall.

For me, again, hang low, save dough. Continue to wholesale. Continue to create opportunities, leverage with seller financing, and really just pay it forward, and don’t be greedy because pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.

[00:20:22] WS: Great advice. What do you predict to happen in the next 6 to 12 months in the real estate market?

[00:20:27] TH: I think it’s going to be an absolute feeding frenzy. I think the people that are sitting cash-heavy, as they say, the golden rule, “He who has the gold makes the rule, and cash is king.” If you got the money and you can move it forward. You don’t even have to have a lot of money, especially if you can find people that you’re – This is actually a helping business. We’re actually helping people because if we can create a seller finance strategy and some people really look down on seller financing, I think there’s going to be an abundance of seller financing because especially with certain things that are wanting to be written up as far as wealth tax and all these things and maybe taking away 1031 and all these things that are out there floating, seller financing is very advantageous because they don’t have to pay capital gains, right?

They don’t have to worry about what they’re going to do at the end of the day when they’re sitting on a war chest of funds, and they can just be the bank. I think people are – They’re already more open to it here now, but I think going into the next year the next, this next year, 6, 12 months, I think there’s going to be, like I said, a lot more seller financing, a lot more openness and willingness to listen where last time when you mentioned seller financing in a hot market, people are like, “Oh, you don’t have the money to do the deal.” Right away, they’re sniffing you out and saying that you don’t have the money.

But if you can get in on average at 5 to 10 percent down and, of course, you need your cash reserves. You have to have your cash reserves because Murphy’s your partner. But even so with very little cash outlay, you don’t have to come out of pocket and slap it down or have to worry about getting the bank loan.

[00:22:03] WS: Got to have cash reserves. I could not agree more. Terry, I believe anyone that’s successful in business but especially real estate has a high level of self-discipline. How did you gain such a high level of self-discipline?

[00:22:15f] TH: I think it seriously came from trial and error is where it stemmed from because I spent a lot of time dealing with projects that just were not worth it, and I was dealing with a lot of partners. It’s kind of like a two-headed monster. Someone said that to me the other day. They said partnerships sometimes can be like a two-headed monster. I said I get it. Someone’s got to be the face of the project. Someone’s got to have control. Someone has to understand time management, and that’s how I feel that I’ve disciplined myself.

Then also, because I’m a trainer, a mentor, a coach, a teacher that if I’m going to be showing somebody else how to do something, Whitney, I have to make sure that I’m on point as well and then I’m also disciplined.

[00:22:56] WS: Do you have a daily habit that you could share with us that you’re disciplined about doing that’s helped you achieve success?

[00:23:01] TH: Yeah. Some people ask me from time to time. They say, “Do you want to make this call? Are you ready?” I always say that I’m born ready. It’s like there there’s no posture. We have to be able to walk and chew bubblegum. You have to be able to do multiple tasks but not be a control freak. It’s okay to give a task to someone. It’s okay to educate and delegate, and that’s what I’ve done. I’ve mentored people here in-house and I’ve asked for them to do things for me the way that I need them done, so they’re done right, but I’m not doing it myself. So duplicating yourself is one of the most important things that you can do in business to ensure your success.

[00:23:40] WS: On that same note, what’s a way you’ve recently improved your business that we could apply to ours?

[00:23:44] TH: The way that you could increase volume because it’s growth is make sure that you actually are doing not just good business but you’re also doing things that are extremely efficient. If you’re working with someone or you’re doing something, whatever it happens to be in your business model, and it’s not producing, like just kill it. I always tell my guys. I’m like, “Get to a no as fast as you can. Don’t concentrate on the yeses. Concentrate on the nos because if we can get to the nos and basically take out everything that’s not working and get away from those time-wasting events, then we’re not going to be bogged down.”

I mean, seriously, if you just sat down and just grabbed a piece of paper and just wrote down everything that’s happening in your business day in and day out just during the week, and then you said, “Okay, we could do away with this. Do way with that. We’re spending too much time on this, spending too much time on that,” and just focus on the things that are actually producing results, you’re going to scale immediately. It’s inevitable.

[00:24:43] WS: What’s the number one thing that’s contributed to your success?

[00:24:48] TH: The number one thing that’s contributed to my success is support of both my family and my team. It’s really, really important that people support you in your business. Just recently, I had a few people leave my office because they lacked in support, understanding, respect. So instantly, they couldn’t believe that I let them go but I had to. It wasn’t a matter if I wanted to. It wasn’t about the emotion. It was that if someone’s not good for your business and someone’s not supporting you in your dreams and endeavors, it’s time for them to kick rocks and hit the door, and you can never look back.

[00:25:27] WS: Yeah, hard decision, but the sooner the better. What about your best source for meeting new investors right now.

[00:25:33] TH: That’s exactly what I’ve been doing is, obviously, the social media platforms getting out there, pushing out my message to the market. You could have the best business card in the world. But if it’s sitting in your fancy pants wallet, it’s never going to be seen, right? No one’s going to know it’s there. No one’s going to know what you’re talking about. You could get out there and you could be as crazy as you want. You could do rants. You could be someone out there that’s always on Instagram or someone who’s always pushing these video ads out. Or maybe that’s not you.

I would say that you’re going to make a horrible somebody else but a perfect you, so just be yourself, do the best you can, have a high level of integrity as we do here in my firm, and just get out the message that you want. Don’t be afraid to ask for the order, don’t be afraid to get out there and don’t hide behind anything. Just be yourself and make sure that you have clarity and speak for purpose and get the message out to the market of what you want. People will listen and they’ll surface.

Since I’ve been doing more and more of that, Whitney, I found that we’ve ramped up. I mean, we’ve had hundreds of people per week come through our pipe. From there, it’s not about me being bogged down and making all these calls to these people. You have to utilize technology. You have to – We do text blasting. We text them, “Are you interested in this? Are you interested in that?” We send them through type forms. We ask questions. We nurture relationships. That’s the key to success is preparation and having the right relationships. All the time wasters that are out there that are just looking to pick your brain, you just got to get away from them because that’s not a good event at all. It happens to me all the time.

[00:27:12] WS: I love that. You said preparation and having the right relationships. That’s so well spoken right there. Terry, how do you like to give back?

[00:27:22] TH: I like to give back in a way where, again, it stems from not being greedy. Even Warren Buffett uses his old term and we all know it. When people are greedy, that’s when you’re fearful. When people are fearful, it’s when you’re greedy. That’s okay. That statement is actually a positive statement because he’s saying that when people are out there on a feeding frenzy, you got to watch what you’re doing and you got to do things the right way.

But what I’m talking about are the people that are out there that are so greedy. I recently had this gentleman on this property. I’m not going to disclose where it is, Whitney, but it was a larger 600-plus-unit self-storage. This gentleman, he put down a 10,000 nonrefundable deposit and this is my freedom of speech, so I can speak but I’m going to speak in a positive way regardless. They waited to the very bitter end, and it was going to be a wholesale deal where I was going to sign the contract. They just got so greedy because they didn’t want to pay the assignment fee because it was over six figures.

I understand that. But for me, if I’m in a situation and somebody brings me a lead that’s going to come to fruition, that’s my biggest give back is to make sure that people get fed because us investors, when we’re out there, us entrepreneurs or us people that are out there doing that creation I spoke of, we have to rely on people that have a high level of integrity that are also going to give back. When there’s that lack of give back, then that’s that resistance and then comes that negative energy. So my biggest give back was to ensure that everybody eats, super important.

[00:28:47] WS: Love that. Terry, it’s been a pleasure to meet you. Pleasure to have you on the show and I just love how you’ve just highlighted so many things for us today. I mean, whether that’s niching down and how that’s helped you recession proof properties, your 10-cap formula, and just how you focus on the reposition properties and got to one to three deals per week. But then also, I liked how you mentioned just the importance of preparation and having the right relationships, so crucial.

Terry, it’s a pleasure to meet you again. Now, tell the listeners how they can get in touch with you and learn more about you.

[00:29:17] TH: Yeah. Thanks for having me too, and I greatly appreciate it, man. So people can reach out to me on my website. It’s Terry Hale, T-E-R-R-Y-H-A-L-E.com. There’s my podcast, Wealth by Design, so they can check that out as well. I’d like to reciprocate and have you on soon enough, Whitney. We can talk about some things that you do that would also be a big give back.

People can reach out just to my website. It’s very easy to get in touch with us. I’m someone who’s accessible, so I encourage people to reach out. If I can assist with showing you how to build wealth with commercial real estate, how we get out there, reposition properties, I do have a mentorship program and I’m also here to partner with people that have capital that want to get out there and build wealth. I’ve always said, Whitney, look, you got one life to live. Live it wealthy.

[00:30:02] WS: Awesome. That’s a wrap, Terry. Thank you so much.

[00:30:05] TH: Cool, man. Thank you as well.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

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[OUTRO]

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